Transcript of interview with Urmi Shah from HRW, broadcast in "Jenin: Massacring the Truth," produced and directed by Martin Himel, Elsasah Productions, for Global Television Network, Inc. July 2004.

> Martin Himel: When it came to Jenin, human rights groups also accused Israel’s military of war crimes. Human Rights Watch confirmed there was no massacre in Jenin. But it accused Israeli soldiers of committing summary executions.

> Martin Himel: When it came to suicide bombers however, Human Rights Watch said those attacks against civilians were a violation of international humanitarian law, which is a far less serious crime.

> Martin Himel: What is the difference between a violation of "international humanitarian law" and "a war crime?"

> Urmi Shah: One of the key factors in deciding whether a violation amounts to a war crime whether it was intentionally done so…

> Urmi Shah: Clear example from the situation in the Jenin refugee camp would be the shooting of a Palestinian civilian who was under direct control of Israeli forces. That is a summary execution. That is a war crime.

> Martin Himel: I suppose intentionality is a key issue so, if an Israeli is suspected of executing a Palestinian and that’s a war crime, why is a suicide bomber who deliberately intends to kill civilians, is he not responsible for war crime?

> Urmi Shah: One of the other things is, it’s militant groups. It is not a state force, in the case of Palestinians.

> Martin Himel: Are militias or militants not held at the same accountability as military organizations?

> Urmi Shah: Sure, but unfortunately – there’s a difference between a state sanctioned if you like, or state controlled individuals, groups, militant groups unfortunately are not – the Palestinian authorities are not able to control them.

> Martin Himel: That sparked allegations substantiated and unsubstantiated.

> Prof. Alan Dershowitz: Organizations like the Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International are having their credibility absolutely destroyed.

> Prof. Alan Dershowitz: Amnesty International has reported that Israeli soldiers deliberately aim at Palestinian children. When asked to document that they couldn’t come up with a single case.

The Human Rights Watch has made up stories that have had no corroboration whatsoever.

The tragedy is that human rights suffers. The tragedy is that the United Nations suffers and the tragedy is that the credibility of what could be wonderful organizations which I have long supported, is lost in the process.